Poll Looking for balancing suggestions on my mod

[harperers]

Talk about your responses below. If you have any other suggestions, then give them to me.

 

[Tucker]

Slightly lower

 

[harperers]

What do people think of removing the weak stomach trait? As it is now it is simply free +3 trait points.

 

[AlexDE12]

What do people think of removing the weak stomach trait? As it is now it is simply free +3 trait points.

Personally I think it's better to keep all negative traits. As is, people that want to take some of the jobs already have to take a good chunk of the bad traits just to break even.

Aside +3 points(asumming you got 0 points left to spent) at best will buy you a point in sneaking, electrician, or a combo of the 2 point traits + speed demon trait

 

[AlexDE12]

A few other notes and things I want to point out:

> Personal opinion: I'd shave off 4 points from most jobs.

> A few of the most combat oriented jobs should have their combat skills down to 4 or 5 for shooting, 3-4 for melee (1-2 points for the jobs that "dont know which end of the knife is the sharp one")

> Weird interaction with lockpicking: lockpicking mod increases the trait cost of burglar by a lot (pretty sure it's more expensive than soldier), this is not without reason as lockpicking can be a powerful skillset, both mechanically and IC, but it gets to an unreasonable level imo. If I were to give suggestions to lower to trait cost I'd suggest lowering the amount of skill points given, like for example sneaking goes from 5 to 3. Again, this is less related to your mod(or lockpicking really) and more the fact how the two interact as of current

> Something I heard and talked with others(but may or may not agree with): ideally we should be able to get a job and be able to juggle between a couple bad traits and 1 (good) or 2(low end/cheap) postivie traits.

 

[harperers]

I would be up for lowering the trait cost by a lot, but as it stands there are so many negative traits that you can take with little effect, such as hemophobic (If you aren't playing a doctor, then this is free points), weak stomach (Rotten food always has a chance of pretty much killing you, this just increases that chance), slow healer (Having injuries doesn't impede you), High thirst (infinite water available), and hearty appetite (Food is usually abundant, i take this just to increase my food production RP-wise anyways). From an RP perspective, these traits are useful, which is why i wouldn't remove them, just maybe nerf them. If i did i would be much more comfortable making the professions cost less while still remaining balanced.

As for nerfing combat skills, i can agree on that, But i want to make sure every profession seems worthwhile to pick, and quantifying that into how much trait points they cost is difficult.

Speaking as someone who uses all 5 of the above traits for every character build since the first lore i have played here, you cant expect that every player will be a saint who does not optimize their build, nor that admins will go over every character so that they don't.
Making a character balanced should involve taking traits that actually affect you mechanically, not just taking the ones with lowest risk. That being said, i would also be up for trying to change these traits to have more impact, but that would probably require much more balancing then simply lowering the bonus it gives you.

 

[Fantasia]

hemophobic is no longer free points. If you have a character with bloody clothes, you're always panicked/anxious. You become a nervous wreck wearing them until you clean them or put on new ones. Also goes for when you're covered in blood, too, I think.

I honestly think the traits are fine as they are. If you lower the cost of traits and don't lower the cost of occupations, no one is going to want to be using any occupation. The game already has a problem with things being expensive vs. what the negative traits give. Lowering what the neg. traits give just makes that problem even worse.

 

[AlexDE12]

also to add to the post above, personally while I know some people dont mind taking it. To me personally not being able to do medical checks and perform first aid kind of takes me out of the experience. Though ofc this a me problem

edit: for further clarification, I mean playing a character that could perform it and not pass out, regardless of whether or not he knows what he's doing

 

[harperers]

I honestly think the traits are fine as they are

Okay, given the new evidence on hemophobic, I guess we can keep it as is. Not being able to perform medical checks is also a minus on multiplayer.

But what about high thirst, hearty appetite, slow healer, and weak stomach? I'm not even mentioning the traits that can be fixed with more finesse.

If you lower the cost of traits and don't lower the cost of occupations, no one is going to want to be using any occupation.

I can also lower the occupations accordingly.

The game already has a problem with things being expensive vs. what the negative traits give. Lowering what the neg. traits give just makes that problem even worse.

To the contrary, I think that the game trait system is notoriously unbalanced and all veteran players usually go with the same easy no-risk builds and go on a shopping spree for all the positive traits they want. Certainly, it may seem that things are expensive if you are a pure rper who only picks traits that fit your character, but to anyone else who only cares about the positive traits they want, this is the reality.

 

[AlexDE12]

I think that the game trait system is notoriously unbalanced

I disagree, all traits you mentioned above are problematic, at least in the recent update.

Hearthy appetite imo is one of the worst to take in the server, given that food isnt exactly common (yes I'm aware worms can be safely eaten, very few people I know of are willing to do so because of IC limitations, or just because they just wont eat worms)

High thirst in particular: since doing any kind of exercise, like zombie killing, increases body temperature, which increases the need for water. Sure, water is still an infinite resource in terms of supply, but the process of getting that water takes time and save having rain collectors(which require someone to have carpentry) or living next to the river or lakes(which depends on where you set up base) most bodies of water are a good distance away, which then carries the risk of injury.

Slow healer is a personal favorite of mine, from an RP perspective I always hated the fact some wounds can heal in a matter of minutes. Only prblem is that a broken leg is a problem of 3 weeks irl

The exceptions are weak stomach, which more often than not is thrown in because either A) The person wants to add one of the minor traits that makes sense to their character or B) They are -2 or -3 points still after taking all bad traits that they feel comfortable with and/or can explain IC

all veteran players usually go with the same easy no-risk builds

As someone who has been playing this game for a long time, while this is the case for basically every game in existance I'd like to point out that most people in the server dont know this, and if they do they generally dont care about the new popular meta-build because makes no sense for their characters.

The worst I've notice people do is start with extra strength because the extra carry capacity is nice for characters that are probably going to be hauling a lot of equipment(soldiers come to mind), and the fact strength and fitness are one of the most static skills ever, aka you'll never get that to level up unless you invest hours and weeks of grinding for those skills, of which the only one that can be grinded for is strength.

Certainly, it may seem that things are expensive if you are a pure rper who only picks traits that fit your character

I disagree, tbh even from a purely mechanical point of view some of the positve traits are expensive and not worth their value, this includes some of the good ones. But I know people take them because they're nice traits to have for a character, given that they would make sense for their characters.

 

[harperers]

I disagree, all traits you mentioned above are problematic, at least in the recent update.

Hearthy appetite imo is one of the worst to take in the server, given that food isnt exactly common (yes I'm aware worms can be safely eaten, very few people I know of are willing to do so because of IC limitations, or just because they just wont eat worms)

High thirst in particular: since doing any kind of exercise, like zombie killing, increases body temperature, which increases the need for water. Sure, water is still an infinite resource in terms of supply, but the process of getting that water takes time and save having rain collectors(which require someone to have carpentry) or living next to the river or lakes(which depends on where you set up base) most bodies of water are a good distance away, which then carries the risk of injury.

Slow healer is a personal favorite of mine, from an RP perspective I always hated the fact some wounds can heal in a matter of minutes. Only prblem is that a broken leg is a problem of 3 weeks irl

The exceptions are weak stomach, which more often than not is thrown in because either A) The person wants to add one of the minor traits that makes sense to their character or B) They are -2 or -3 points still after taking all bad traits that they feel comfortable with and/or can explain IC

Since the history of new dawn, I cant recall a single person starving to death.

Water is available from any tap, bathroom, or sink from every house on the map. That is highly unlikely to ever run out, and when it does you will definitely have another easy source of water secured.

As for slow healer, i would not remove it, i would simply make it give you less points.

Same with weak stomach, if it doesnt give you any mechanical disadvantage, then you shouldnt get a mechanical advantage for it, but for RP reasons it will ofcourse still be left in.

As someone who has been playing this game for a long time, while this is the case for basically every game in existance I'd like to point out that most people in the server dont know this, and if they do they generally dont care about the new popular meta-build because makes no sense for their characters.

The worst I've notice people do is start with extra strength because the extra carry capacity is nice for characters that are probably going to be hauling a lot of equipment(soldiers come to mind), and the fact strength and fitness are one of the most static skills ever, aka you'll never get that to level up unless you invest hours and weeks of grinding for those skills, of which the only one that can be grinded for is strength.

I dont think either of us can prove our claim of what population of the players max out their builds, but what we can agree on is that they do exist. And these builds arent like fashion trends, they have been the same for years, and anyone who plays PZ singleplayer for long runs knows which builds get you the farthest. Also, i think that strength is balanced how it is, given how much it costs.

Balance means that the negative traits that give 6 points should as bad as taking the stout trait and getting +2 strength is good. As it stands, alot of traits do not hold up to this.

I disagree, tbh even from a purely mechanical point of view some of the positve traits are expensive and not worth their value, this includes some of the good ones. But I know people take them because they're nice traits to have for a character, given that they would make sense for their characters.

Which good ones are too expensive? Hunter is one of the best skills in the game (trapping recipes, +1 to alot of skills) Athletic and strong are self-explanatory, Adrenaline junkie is OP because it makes you run insanely faster at times you need to run fast, almost making you untouchable to zombies, The one point i can agree with you on is handy, which seems like a 6 point skill to me. Anything that gives you two skills seems to be balanced at 6 points. As for fast healer, light eater and low thirst, and iron gut, i think they should also be lowered for the same reason the negative traits should be lowered

Saying that we should leave negative traits alone so people can abuse it and get the positive traits they want for RP value is not an argument i am willing to accept. There should definitely be another solution. If you were not trying to make this argument then i apologize, but i have been hearing things to the tune of this for a while.