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I’ve been observing from a distance during all this, but I couldn’t stay quiet with the accusation of suicidal threats.



I believe this is the quote where Aza “threatened suicide”? I asked and she assures me she never did once. So this clearly must be the blurb that’s being referred to. If so, you’ve wrongly twisted her words because there’s clearly no threat there. She first stated she was leaving and then stated she was not in a great place mentally, explaining that that’s why she was leaving.

I hope this wasn’t what you were all referring to, because twisting a persons words into a “suicide threat” is extremely low and despicable. Not even a “oh we made a mistake” is redeemable, because a decent person would double check before claiming something like that.

Anyways, let me know if I’m wrong and if I am bring a quote.
The way she worded it was well and far away from how it should've been put, imo. While I sympathise and understand how bad her mental health is and the fact that she herself admits in the DM's right there that she is suicidal, the way she went about putting it into words wasn't in any way appropriate or necessary. In the context of the conversation, Azakalea and Mindgate were not exactly just chatting, the conversation seems to have been quite heated so Azakalea having dropped such a piece of information like "im downright suicidal smiley face" at the point in the conversation just after being told she was in the wrong and getting scolded by lore boy, it could easily be misconstrued as a veiled threat of self harm. Past that, it's a whole fucking lot to just drop on another human being like that, and while I fully support being there for each other and your pals, in the context of the conversation that was (and please don't take this the wrong way) kind of a shitty thing to do. I know Mindgate, I know how he is, and that's a lot of information to drop just like that on the poor fella when he's been stressing about this whole mess and the topic of the conversation. You've just gotta come at it from all angles and see all the possible ways someone could take a statement like that, man. It's kinda fucked up when you think about it.

p.s refer to my previous message about the accusatory tone
 
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El Cid

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I believe it is this part, but it was fragmented wording:

I just can't do this anymore
I dunno
it's still fresh
I can undo it
But I'd need serious counseling
I am not in a good place right now
downright suicidal 🙂

'It's still fresh, I can undo it but I'd need serious counseling. I'm not in a good place right now, [I'm] downright suicidal'. Is it literally the exact words 'I am going to do it unless I get my way'? No, not literally. But if you read it in the complete context of this conversation and all the others myself and others have had with her, I don't think it's a stretch to say this is in reference to the whole conversation around events, mods and her feeling a lack of respect over it.

From my point of view, I know mind very well at this point. I've read the extremely personal parts that were redacted and I know Mind has tried to help her out numerous times. Feeling like someone is going to commit suicide, and having them drop it during a heated conversation is a lot for anyone to take on.

Speaking for myself, I personally talked to Aza as well before all this in dm's, and it never felt like anything we did was enough to make her feel valued and respected. I'm not trying to disrespect her by saying that either, but that's how I felt personally and what she intimated to me. I have my own IRL issues, and I can tell you from personal experience, PZ adminning is not the place to try and find validation and respect. I'm sad to say that, but it's true, and as a former admin Tucker, I hope you can sympathize with this.

In the end, it's not healthy for her to be an admin for herself or for the team. I wish none of us had real life issues, including Aza for what it's worth. I don't think mind, or anyone else was trying to throw her under the bus, but how she acted and spoke during her time as admin made me (and I feel the rest of the team) feel this way.

In the end, I hope you have known Mind and myself long enough now Tucker to believe that we wouldn't twist her words, and for us to say that, we feel that we were reading the situation right.

The way she worded it was well and far away from how it should've been put, imo. While I sympathise and understand how bad her mental health is and the fact that she herself admits in the DM's right there that she is suicidal, the way she went about putting it into words wasn't in any way appropriate or necessary. In the context of the conversation, Azakalea and Mindgate were not exactly just chatting, the conversation seems to have been quite heated so Azakalea having dropped such a piece of information like "im downright suicidal smiley face" at the point in the conversation just after being told she was in the wrong and getting scolded by lore boy, it could easily be misconstrued as a veiled threat of self harm. Past that, it's a whole fucking lot to just drop on another human being like that, and while I fully support being there for each other and your pals, in the context of the conversation that was (and please don't take this the wrong way) kind of a shitty thing to do. I know Mindgate, I know how he is, and that's a lot of information to drop just like that on the poor fella when he's been stressing about this whole mess and the topic of the conversation. You've just gotta come at it from all angles and see all the possible ways someone could take a statement like that, man. It's kinda fucked up when you think about it.
 

Roflmaozors

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Hey guys, regarding the little situation here. I feel like this is something here that shouldn't have been exposed to the public. Allegedly these logs were leaked but now they're definitely 100% leaked. I thought here we were trying to mitigate damages and trying to move in a productive fashion. I don't see how dragging Aza into the mud is helping anyone and it is certainly not saving anyone's face. It was uncalled for in my opinion to release this information, especially regarding her mental state while she is unable to defend herself right now with the ban. It's not open season for dragging someone's mental issues down. It's not just a right-or-wrong here but it extends to the realm of having a degree of respect for her as a person and her privacy. It's unprofessional and the way it was introduced into the thread here was a little derailing as well.

I get it, all these things coming out are frustrating but there's been a lot of talk about cooling down and trying to look at things from the other person's perspective. Why can't we also extend this to Azakaela and not drag her down while she's unable to defend herself? Because this is not the move here ngl.
 

El Cid

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I have asked the admin team not to reply to the thread tonight. This is not to ignore anything, but to allow some of us to get some rest, as I know I am personally mentally drained. However, I am not ordering it. I ask that everyone else here do the same, get some rest and recharge. Should you be overseas, I understand this may not be possible. For me, I am going to sleep and come back tomorrow.
 

SgtoSeryei

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If there is something I see the player base is forgetting about exposing those logs is the fact that, if only the leaks would had been shown around it would be pretty much a framing against the entire admin team. This means, whoever leaked the parts of the logs that the deliberately decided helped to harm the admins knew what they were doing. The leaking of a determined part of the logs is clearly aimed at hurting the already weak relationship between both sides and to make the negotiations harder. Summarizing, to cause damage.

Now, I understand that the admins have decided to show the entirety of the logs that have been leaked and, at least myself, see it as a way of being transparent about Aza's situation and to clarify things in that aspect, cause it was either that or do nothing and take a blame that was unfairly and entirely being placed solemnly on them only.

I only ask to try and see it this way: If they showed us all the full extend of such conversations was in order of being transparent about the situation and to defend themselves with the truth and not some cut unhonest leaks like someone - won't point fingers cause I am not 100% sure who did it - took and distributed among the base players with the only purpose of hurting and harming.

Edit: And regarding Aza's situation, I am with the admins in this because during my few years on Discord RP I have seen many cases like this and I have had to dealt with people like her and I know the admins are right. Not because 'Deux es machina and they are right' but because my own experiences proves them right.
 
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Gummybear

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Hey everyone, I'm going to cut the crap as much as I can with all of this because it's getting out of hand. Please read my last post if you haven't because it provides context for what I'm about to say. This will be the last post that I make of this unless anyone requests that I backup or clarify further.

Responses to my first post
This first section is going to be mild and I'm just replying to the responses to my first post.

Atlas
I was told by admins that Jack Summers had been the character who saw Juniper and Auren talking in the pantry. Elijah wasn't mentioned IC or OOC and I don't think his testimony was the evidence that I referenced. I don't remember the scene you're talking about happening, and so I'd like to see the logs through discord. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember it and so I'm curious. Juniper and Auren may have been in the same room at one point, although I am positive that the only time they interacted was with him slipping her the walkie talkie.

El Cid did conclude that Lorelei's application had been submitted prior to the jailing. I do think it was just a bad coincidence in hindsight, but at the time it was one of the main reasons we were concerned about rule breaking. I also want to say that we had only chosen to pin the bombing on Noelle because she was our only option. We needed to plant the evidence inside the claim of a CPF character inside Monroe, and none of them had a claim in town besides Noelle at that point.

Overall, the conclusion we made with the admins was that the evidence was suspicious but regardless of what happened nothing could be proven with logs. I'm alright with talking about it more, privately or through a ticket, although I don't really see the point now since a conclusion was already made and it's way too late to be voided.

I don't know if there was rule breaking, Atlas, but judging off of Hostie's response and the situation with Jonah and you happening at the time it didn't look good. I can talk more about everything that made us suspicious if you want but I don't want to derail the thread and so I'd prefer if it's done privately or through a ticket. I didn't want to name you or a lot of others in my post in case anyone would be uncomfortable with that. I only mentioned the situation because it contributed to why I left.

El Erp
I do just want to say that I didn't mean to imply Pika was weak. She's signed up for being an admin while in college, knowing exactly the type of workload it would bring because she wanted to help the server. I did feel it was necessary to criticize her on something because I am friends with her and I was criticizing other admins and I didn't want to be biased. Her being too nice is the only complaint I'd have, which is about the most positive complaint anyone can have about someone.

I didn't mean to shift all the blame on Holt for the military compound event either. Some parts he could have definitely handled better, although he was new and it's completely understandable. I was only talking about the problems we had to emphasize that by the time we reached the Monroe group we were already frustrated. After a numberless wave of NPCs with guns trapped us in and the pipe bombs weren't acknowledged properly, we all just became eager to retcon. That event was mostly PZ mechanical issues, but also admin issues, and I want to remind everyone that Holt was not the only admin involved.

I know that everything I said you didn't specifically mention, I was just thinking of it as I read your reply. I wanted to expand on all of this looking back on it.

Hostie
I think part of your reply is in response to mine and so I'm going to address it. I didn't accuse you of anything in my first post and I'm not accusing you of anything now. I said that I was suspicious that you broke the rules, but as with Atlas, we have moved on from that more than two months ago. I only brought it up to explain my experience and history with the server as I did with everything else. I have tried to apologize to you and explain everything from my perspective. I am past the situation, regardless of what happened, and I'm asking that you do the same.

Jonah
My character, Juniper, was friends with Jonah’s character, Jack Summers, which is how I know Jonah. Like many players, I would join the discord VC when I was playing and Jonah would often be in there with Atlas and Pika, because their characters were closely connected at the time, and this was the first time I interacted with Jonah.

A few days after Juniper was jailed, I had friend requested Jonah and was talking to him about Atlas and his experience with her. At the time I was suspicious that Atlas had broken rules and Jonah had recently leaked logs between him and Atlas which showed her being rude to him. As we were talking, he said that Hostie had just shown up in game and gave him a ban warning for Jack Summers mistreating his dogs.

Jonah seemed anxious and upset about it, and I encouraged him to not respond to Hostie if he was uncomfortable talking to her. I told El Cid what was happening and he said that Jonah should make a ticket, although when I told Jonah to do that, he said he didn’t know how. I gave him instructions on how to make a ticket and he said that he was uncomfortable doing that as well.
I updated El Cid on what was happening, although he was at work at the time and couldn’t step away. Jonah was talking about how he felt bullied by everyone and his messages were concerning and so I messaged Vio and told him what was happening. I made a group chat with Vio, El Cid, Jonah, and Mindgate and they all handled the situation. This was the only major conversation I had with Jonah outside of the server and VC related chat.

Over the past few days of reading this thread and talking with Pika, I’ve learned more about Jonah. I was told specifically about all his rule violations and the inappropriate ways he would interact with admins. I’ve also found out that Jonah is not a new player like I thought originally, but that he’s played in a past lore and had gotten into trouble then. I found out that the dog problem was more warranted than I initially thought, although I still don't understand why that couldn't have been handled IC.

Azakalea
I haven’t ever spoken with Aza but like many players, I saw her positively since she was involved in the community and made a lot of the server mods.

I found out two days ago that she was a new admin, and on that same day, I was sent the logs of her in the admin chat. I didn’t know the context at the time, but having had a bad experience with both Hostie and Mindgate before, it wasn’t that surprising that they were unnecessarily harsh with her.

Pika and I were talking yesterday and she began to talk about Aza. Pika described her full experience with her and, after having talked about Jonah’s similar situation, I said there was serious misinformation going around. I sent the Aza logs I had been shown to Pika to explain that some players had been shown a completely different story. We talked some more, and I encouraged Pika to publicly clear up what had actually happened with Aza. This was her decision to post, although I don't think anyone intended for it to derail the thread as much as it has. I only wanted for it to explain the context of what happened with Aza because a lot of players, including myself, had been shown another story.

Overall
I’m no longer going to assume that players are telling me the absolute truth about their experiences with the admins. I can, however, still attest that my overall personal experiences with them were poor. All of this misinformation only heightened tensions that were already there and I don't want to invalidate every player complaint. I’m still encouraging players to share the issues they’ve had as all this has done is emphasize why public discussion is necessary. I’m not going to be an armchair psychologist about Azakalea and all I can say is I hope she gets the help she needs and I support the admins removing her.

I’m not going to doubt the ruling on Jonah any longer either. Like with Azakalea, I had been told everything out of context and in a way that deliberately made admins look bad. I want to be clear, though, that they could have been transparent from the start. If I had gotten a quick message before or after the situation from Hostie – or any admin involved – specifically explaining why she was warning Jonah then I wouldn’t have protested it. Instead, I’m told lies by the players and only met with hostility by the admins. When players are being told that the admins are unwhitelisting players out of spite then it needs to be directly addressed by those in charge instead of ignored. This is exactly what happens when you don't acknowledge serious allegations publicly and clearly. This thread can be the first step towards that if people choose, and I'm referring to both admins and players.
 

El Cid

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Thank you for the summary here Gummy. I wanted to say a quick thing or two from my own perspective, and then back to work. One thing I have always been very big on is confidentiality with players and admins. What I've always wanted for the server is to have it feel like a safe place for everyone involved, and so if someone brings something to my attention and I take action on it, I'm often asked by other players 'well, who said this? who else did this' etc etc. At times, I've gotten the impression, further confirmed here, that it makes me seem like I'm hiding something or trying to double speak or something? I could be wrong, but if it seems that way, it's not from a place of malice or trying to cover myself.

On your portion about myself, I may have misread or mis-stated something in my first reply. I was more wanting to put it out there that, while pika is kind, nice and helpful to the point some people take advantage of it, she is very strong in many ways. More of a general rah-rah for her and why I feel the need to step in to help her if needed. I'm a dad, sue me. :P

Events in general are hard to run, I know the what... 1-2 events a year I run when mind makes me, I'm terrified and not great at it. I did enjoy being the Trickster though..... Anyways, improving on events is always an ongoing process, so knowing what people liked and didn't like from an event after it's over is good feedback.

Anywho, I've got to go to a meeting real quick, so I'll chime in more later if need be.

Hey everyone, I'm going to cut the crap as much as I can with all of this because it's getting out of hand. Please read my last post if you haven't because it provides context for what I'm about to say. This will be the last post that I make of this unless anyone requests that I backup or clarify further.

Responses to my first post

This first section is going to be mild and I'm just replying to the responses to my first post.

Atlas
I was told by admins that Jack Summers had been the character who saw Juniper and Auren talking in the pantry. Elijah wasn't mentioned IC or OOC and I don't think his testimony was the evidence that I referenced. I don't remember the scene you're talking about happening, and so I'd like to see the logs through discord. I'm not saying it didn't happen, I just don't remember it and so I'm curious. Juniper and Auren may have been in the same room at one point, although I am positive that the only time they interacted was with him slipping her the walkie talkie.

El Cid did conclude that Lorelei's application had been submitted prior to the jailing. I do think it was just a bad coincidence in hindsight, but at the time it was one of the main reasons we were concerned about rule breaking. I also want to say that we had only chosen to pin the bombing on Noelle because she was our only option. We needed to plant the evidence inside the claim of a CPF character inside Monroe, and none of them had a claim in town besides Noelle at that point.

Overall, the conclusion we made with the admins was that the evidence was suspicious but regardless of what happened nothing could be proven with logs. I'm alright with talking about it more, privately or through a ticket, although I don't really see the point now since a conclusion was already made and it's way too late to be voided.

I don't know if there was rule breaking, Atlas, but judging off of Hostie's response and the situation with Jonah and you happening at the time it didn't look good. I can talk more about everything that made us suspicious if you want but I don't want to derail the thread and so I'd prefer if it's done privately or through a ticket. I didn't want to name you or a lot of others in my post in case anyone would be uncomfortable with that. I only mentioned the situation because it contributed to why I left.

El Erp
I do just want to say that I didn't mean to imply Pika was weak. She's signed up for being an admin while in college, knowing exactly the type of workload it would bring because she wanted to help the server. I did feel it was necessary to criticize her on something because I am friends with her and I was criticizing other admins and I didn't want to be biased. Her being too nice is the only complaint I'd have, which is about the most positive complaint anyone can have about someone.

I didn't mean to shift all the blame on Holt for the military compound event either. Some parts he could have definitely handled better, although he was new and it's completely understandable. I was only talking about the problems we had to emphasize that by the time we reached the Monroe group we were already frustrated. After a numberless wave of NPCs with guns trapped us in and the pipe bombs weren't acknowledged properly, we all just became eager to retcon. That event was mostly PZ mechanical issues, but also admin issues, and I want to remind everyone that Holt was not the only admin involved.

I know that everything I said you didn't specifically mention, I was just thinking of it as I read your reply. I wanted to expand on all of this looking back on it.

Hostie
I think part of your reply is in response to mine and so I'm going to address it. I didn't accuse you of anything in my first post and I'm not accusing you of anything now. I said that I was suspicious that you broke the rules, but as with Atlas, we have moved on from that more than two months ago. I only brought it up to explain my experience and history with the server as I did with everything else. I have tried to apologize to you and explain everything from my perspective. I am past the situation, regardless of what happened, and I'm asking that you do the same.

Jonah
My character, Juniper, was friends with Jonah’s character, Jack Summers, which is how I know Jonah. Like many players, I would join the discord VC when I was playing and Jonah would often be in there with Atlas and Pika, because their characters were closely connected at the time, and this was the first time I interacted with Jonah.

A few days after Juniper was jailed, I had friend requested Jonah and was talking to him about Atlas and his experience with her. At the time I was suspicious that Atlas had broken rules and Jonah had recently leaked logs between him and Atlas which showed her being rude to him. As we were talking, he said that Hostie had just shown up in game and gave him a ban warning for Jack Summers mistreating his dogs.

Jonah seemed anxious and upset about it, and I encouraged him to not respond to Hostie if he was uncomfortable talking to her. I told El Cid what was happening and he said that Jonah should make a ticket, although when I told Jonah to do that, he said he didn’t know how. I gave him instructions on how to make a ticket and he said that he was uncomfortable doing that as well.
I updated El Cid on what was happening, although he was at work at the time and couldn’t step away. Jonah was talking about how he felt bullied by everyone and his messages were concerning and so I messaged Vio and told him what was happening. I made a group chat with Vio, El Cid, Jonah, and Mindgate and they all handled the situation. This was the only major conversation I had with Jonah outside of the server and VC related chat.

Over the past few days of reading this thread and talking with Pika, I’ve learned more about Jonah. I was told specifically about all his rule violations and the inappropriate ways he would interact with admins. I’ve also found out that Jonah is not a new player like I thought originally, but that he’s played in a past lore and had gotten into trouble then. I found out that the dog problem was more warranted than I initially thought, although I still don't understand why that couldn't have been handled IC.


Azakalea
I haven’t ever spoken with Aza but like many players, I saw her positively since she was involved in the community and made a lot of the server mods.

I found out two days ago that she was a new admin, and on that same day, I was sent the logs of her in the admin chat. I didn’t know the context at the time, but having had a bad experience with both Hostie and Mindgate before, it wasn’t that surprising that they were unnecessarily harsh with her.

Pika and I were talking yesterday and she began to talk about Aza. Pika described her full experience with her and, after having talked about Jonah’s similar situation, I said there was serious misinformation going around. I sent the Aza logs I had been shown to Pika to explain that some players had been shown a completely different story. We talked some more, and I encouraged Pika to publicly clear up what had actually happened with Aza. This was her decision to post, although I don't think anyone intended for it to derail the thread as much as it has. I only wanted for it to explain the context of what happened with Aza because a lot of players, including myself, had been shown another story.


Overall
I’m no longer going to assume that players are telling me the absolute truth about their experiences with the admins. I can, however, still attest that my overall personal experiences with them were poor. All of this misinformation only heightened tensions that were already there and I don't want to invalidate every player complaint. I’m still encouraging players to share the issues they’ve had as all this has done is emphasize why public discussion is necessary. I’m not going to be an armchair psychologist about Azakalea and all I can say is I hope she gets the help she needs and I support the admins removing her.

I’m not going to doubt the ruling on Jonah any longer either. Like with Azakalea, I had been told everything out of context and in a way that deliberately made admins look bad. I want to be clear, though, that they could have been transparent from the start. If I had gotten a quick message before or after the situation from Hostie – or any admin involved – specifically explaining why she was warning Jonah then I wouldn’t have protested it. Instead, I’m told lies by the players and only met with hostility by the admins. When players are being told that the admins are unwhitelisting players out of spite then it needs to be directly addressed by those in charge instead of ignored. This is exactly what happens when you don't acknowledge serious allegations publicly and clearly. This thread can be the first step towards that if people choose, and I'm referring to both admins and players.
 

MindGate

Lore Goblin
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Hi, I mentioned last night I intended on making a post explaining a few things. I'm just going to be as direct as possible in this! I have a lot of things I want to address, comment on, and also tell you all about.

Mr. Mischief & Azakaela
So, I want to extend an apology to you, Mischief. I came off far too hot last night initially, I think we both recognize we made some mistakes in how we approached each other. It wasn't right for me to tell you to leave the community in the manner I did, I see that. For a few of your complaints, though, I have no memory of Zed sending any scouts ahead and to match that, we don't roll with D100s, we roll with D20s. I have asked a few of the players (Nat & Max) and neither of them has any memory of that either. It's been a long few days, though, between all the drama and misunderstandings, if this was something that occurred, I extend my apologies. I will look to make changes to this in the next event. It's all I can do.

Now, in regards to Azakaela. I'll be blunt with you; I was harsh on her in staff chat. It's been building up over the last few months, I have had several encounters with her wherein she has made veiled threats to me or had straight-up become vindictive during her bad days at work. For the past few days--or possibly weeks--I'm not entirely certain, Aza started running events behind my back. It's not something we do on our team. We have set measures in place that every admin is expected to follow; where they have to post a concept in-detail with a set end, length, amount of enemies, and so on for them to receive approval from the admin team. This has been in play as far back as a few days after she decided to join our team. My frustration in how I, unfortunately, decided to handle the initial encounter was not exclusive to the situation at hand, but constant weeks of build-up. It's hard to explain, but when people do these sorts of things and disregard rules, it is deeply insulting to me.

Now, I will briefly go back to the situation we're all talking about. I'm not going any further into it past this, I don't want to derail this thread anymore than it already has been with stuff that should've been done with. From your positions, looking in, as an outsider not involved in the conversation, it may look like I was unsympathetic, uncaring, and downright mean to Azakaela by not acknowledging what she said. I see that. But, our conversation was not between "friends" nor have I ever expressed comfort with any of what she dropped on me--being dropped on me. It was us discussing admin business, and her decision to drop what she did on me was highly unprofessional and something none of you would ever do to anyone you were currently working with, or for. It's easier to judge when you're not in the heat of the conversation and looking from the lens of an outsider, interpretations change in the form of text in that light, but speaking honestly, I am not a counselor, I haven't ever agreed to be one and I have no responsibility to Azakaela to be one. All of us, players, admins alike have bad days, but most of us check them at the door and come into this with the understanding that it is not the problem of the players or admins on the server. It's also not an excuse for what she did, either, to match that.

I am deeply sympathetic to Azakaela's situation and having known her as long as I have, I wish her nothing but the best in her future endeavors. I want her to get past all of this, move on, and be happy.

A matter of perspective & speaking how you feel
This is something I really want to bring up to each and every one of you, admins and players both. It's an extension of our point-of-view but applies to both parties equally. I've noticed a lot of you mention being afraid to speak up for fear of banning, or any other number of things, I can understand that POV to an extent. But, I'm going to put it like this. You need to start looking at us with some modicum of trust because often, it's a matter of projection on our end - numerous admins have made attempts to feel out members of the community and nothing has happened to them. The method a lot of you have chosen to go about this is wrong, and the method we chose to respond to it in is wrong. I am seeing a lot of you mention being deeply upset by this, but, I have to point out we're not mind-readers. I can ask someone at the end of my event whether or not it was enjoyable--and I hear nothing but good feedback, only to in under 24 hours hear another story from the same person by extension of a third party. How can we be expected to make changes you want, and hear your feedback, if we're not given it? The method this has gone about is also not going to bring apart much, either, I do not believe some of the approaches taken in this thread is right. This stuff should be brought up BEFORE this point - before a lot of you are coming in here, making threats of quitting, breaks, or so on. To us? You're putting a loaded gun to our head and demanding it, with nothing in the middle for us to look into manners of change organically with discussion among the staff. It's ridiculous, simply put -- speak up on these matters before this point and recognize not all of your feedback pertains to our, or the rest of the community vision for this lore. It's a mutual ground, here, split fifty-fifty, not everything is going to receive an immediate yes, and that does not mean we're not listening. Just not every suggestion can become reality. That's how things like these work, I ask you to not take that personally.

GummyBear & My Role in Change
I'm glad you decided to come back to express your thoughts, I agree with a lot of them. I don't want to speak up for, or against anyone else. So, I'll acknowledge your post and respond to your segment on me. I agree with you, I have my faults and I need to look at them and improve how I handle situations going forward. But, I do want to offer a little bit of insight. I do make a lot of promises, and some of them I am unfortunately unable to keep - I do listen to your suggestions but I am not actually an owner of the community. I work as Senior Staff, and more importantly, my focus is primarily on the topic of Lore, Combat Systems, Rules, Wiki Management, and so on. When I say I promise something, I'm promising to take your case to the admin team and fight for your viewpoint to the best of my abilities. It's a given that not everyone is going to see eye-to-eye on everything and I am unfortunately not able to see that it happens each time. In some of the cases you're speaking of (which I will touch on in the next segment) there were pre-existing issues surrounding the situations that added a lot more complexity to them. End of the day, I apologize if our conversation left you with the impression that I supported any sort of admin abuse, or was looking to protect my friends. It's not what I intended, and I think is the byproduct of us speaking so soon after the events that unfolded.

Your Event (Gummy)

I do not want to get too deeply into this. But, I'll bring this up - I interfered with the production of this event for direct reasons. The method you and your faction came across said information was through a character--Ryker--directly story-crossing (an act where you have two of your own characters interact to exchange information, or offer opportunities you shouldn't have. It's against the rules, and deeply frowned on.) with his other character to get the aforementioned information. I went out of my way to try and accommodate members of the group in this incident by outright not instructing you to void it from the get-go, the reason for this being the potential roleplay gain from it from both parties had you been successful in the operation carried out. That, however, is not what happened. I'm not going to comment on the incidents of chat-bugs or the surprise Slavs in the middle of the event because I was not working as the gamemaster during it. While I played in this event IC, I had no actual reasonable method of getting out of it as I was directly hired by the person giving out the job. Now, I'm sorry at how it went, but with the number of complexities surrounding the situation, it ended up that way.

Now, I'll say this - I want you to know we did make changes to our factions. We removed all unneeded admins from it, and as far as I know, only myself and the owners are in every one of them. Everyone else is involved in them only because of their direct relation to the faction itself with their characters. If you have any further ideas on how we can protect the anonymity of our players, get back to me. I'll look into it, but I don't think there's been a huge issue past that.


Myself, Don Jones and Alleged Powergaming/God/Power Fantasies
In speaking with Rofl, I have come to understand the PoV many of you have come from in regards to this. I'll be more vigilant in my actions on this character going forward. But, I do want to offer some clarification on some of the aforementioned problems taken up with the character, my actions, concerns over wrapping lore importance, and so on. To start, I also want to elaborate; Don Jones is not an Admin NPC. He is my player character, and his importance to the lore is minimal. He is in possession of some of the information (his knowledge of special infected, suspicion on the military, his acts taken during the bunker event, and world history regarding the Disciples of Lazarus) he has because of his presence in Part 1 of this lore. At the beginning of this lore, I offered similar information to people who decided to be from Valley Station, Kentucky, and the said affected areas from where the events of Part 1 stretched out. There weren't many of them, and most of them ended up stepping out or dying before they had a chance to share any of that information. In our conversations, mentions of my contributions regarding the bunker we encountered "Davey Crocket" in were brought up. I'd like to assure you all that I shared this information after receiving it exclusively in-character, toward the beginning of this lore, Don briefly stepped way from Monroe and ended up encountering another player character--Darner Foxglove--and becoming employed to him as a mercenary. During my work with him, I was brought on several events where I legitimately obtained information in regards to events - which, as was in character for Don, he decided to share with Monroe given his knowledge of their on-going conflicts with both The Miller Family and The C-P-F. His in-character reasoning for this was feeling in-debted to Julianne Lynch, who had previously been killed in Monroe - guilt suffered for his prior abandonment of her there, and knowledge of her IC desire to see Monroe flourish as a bastion for people looking for second chances.

Additionally, I've heard some comments on a few other things; Don's survival and the outcome of his and Kai's fight with the Trullan, as well as a few prior mentions he made in regards to the Miller's. I'll start out with the most pressing of the two: Pika was working as our GM during the time of the event and had received a few complaints from players participating in regards to the number of injuries sustained. At this point, she did not feel comfortable in doing much more extreme damage to players participating in the event - nor killing them - and made the decision to let us get ourselves out of it through in-character communication & working together. The stalagmites utilized in the cavern were used prior to this as a weapon - and is something we intended on using as another, alternative method to combat them outside of direct, outright gunfire (the similar reason for the dynamite being implemented, Trullan are not easy opponents, and I, unfortunately, gave that impression with our light-version of the combat system. That is on me.). It was a mistake on our end to not bring more attention to them at the beginning of the event. This is not all on Pika, either, as it was her second-time actually handling a scene like this, a lot of mistakes were made, as one can expect. I'll mention this since I don't believe we have anywhere else - but our admins are being trained in how to utilize this system on-the-fly and in-game with live experience with players. It's the best way to get experience, as we cannot account for all of the possible things our players may do during these. It happens, sometimes, even I am still learning the system and working out the best methods for GMing while utilizing it. The decision made during the event, however, was not made out of favoritism - I am fine with my characters dying, and if the character who did what he did during the event decided to pull his gun and shoot me, I'd of taken it with no argument. That's how life is - people die suddenly, and I'm not exempt from this.

If my word in this is not enough, which is fair, I'll share a few examples of the failings that I've taken during this lore -- I did not originally intend on playing Don as my full focused, near sole character.

* - Francis Nial
Got asked to go outside and help a new player & give them some roleplay. Did it, I came across Rook and his group and got found out relatively quick due to his accent and stature. I managed to escape during the initial encounter, made it back to Monroe, had some pretty good roleplay with the player of Job, and a few others. I ended up willingly turning myself in with Rook after the aforementioned conversation. Since then, Francis has been in custody off-map. Provided roleplay for everyone, I did not put myself above others and it led to some nice development for those around him.
* - Conrad Miller
Did some roleplay with people as Conrad - who was an initial, starting character in Monroe. I owned the bar, I didn't log onto him an awful lot but started to toward the end of his character. I had him develop some mental issues; dealing with paranoia after the death of his good friend Arlo Gray and Bonnie Mills at the beginning of the lore. It led to him managing to convince a few players to commit an actual assassination attempt against the C-P-F which would ultimately serve as his downfall. By his own friends, Avery Dekker, Marian Castle, and former member of the C-P-F, Julianne Lynch, he was arrested to clear Monroe's name of the act and to pin the blame solely onto him. Outside, Conrad ended up getting himself killed, and that was that.
* - The Great McManus
I logged on him for literally five minutes, walked to the gates of Monroe with someone I was lightly grouped with, yelled at the gates for a while to get someone's attention, and the minute the leader arrived, I got shot from behind by Darner Foxglove, initiated mechanical PVP with him and nearly beat him to death with a hammer. I lost, I died, I was upset for one night and then I got over it. That was that.

Each and every single one of my characters had full backstories and applications which I will go out of my way to share screenshots of, as well as transcripts of if need be. None of them were NPCs, and I treated each of them identically to how I treat Don Jones. None are more special, and I'll take an L wherever I need to so long as rules are abided by, and everything is legit.

Now, onto the lesser comment - The Miller comments, I cannot honestly remember what was said. But, I'm going off of the assumption what I said was the one comment I can actually recall: Don making mention of having seen the handiwork of the Millers and being interested in going for their bounties. I'll point to the bounties thread - I utilized information seen in that. Don Jones is a mercenary, and by extension--a bounty hunter. His comment was nothing more than flavor text.

With that out of the way, I want to say - I understand all of your perspectives on this. It's reasonable and sometimes hard to disassociate my characters from me, as the loremaster. It's fine, I expect it to an extent. I just want you to know if any of you ever feel like I'm overstepping in what I'm doing with my character, you can reach out to me. I'm not going to ban you, I'm not going to get mad. I like to know these things because I try to make an effort to not make it that way. I don't like stories of power fantasies, I don't like characters who can never fail and I don't like players who can never die. I do not want to spend my time in this community like that, I care deeply about the collaborative aspect of this server, and I want to respect that. Past that, I might be able to offer some insight and show you my intentions, or you might show me something I've done--haven't notice--and can improve on. I consider a lot of you my friends, even those of you who may be new to the community, and I don't want you feeling uncomfortable around me OOC or IC. Period. That's not the environment I ever want to see fostered here. New Dawn and Gateway Roleplay have seen too much strife between both the players and admins in the years we've been up--and it's up to us to not see that going forward. Communicate with me, I'll communicate with you because at the end of the day - I have no grudges with any of you. This, at the end of the day, is a game, not my livelihood, and it's one I want to have fun on with my friends--not at the expense of them. I hope the same is regarded by everyone here.


The changes we want to make going forward
So, I'll get up to the next part. It's not a lot, right now, I want to discuss a lot more with Rofl and a few other members of the community so long as they are willing to either speak here--or in DMs in regards to what they want. I've had some time to reflect on our events, and I agree, there's not a lot of actual material merit of going to them, and the two I've hosted have been particularly dangerous, on top of that. That's not fair to you and is frankly unenjoyable. We had some initial concerns with our events potentially providing too many powerful weapons (as we did and still want to avoid having that problem). But, I'm of the mindset we can work something else out and minimalize the number of weapons found by looking into other alternative rewards such as; monetary gain, ammo, building materials, explosives, armor, vehicles, horses, not to mention more roleplay-based rewards, such as unique lore notes and even potentially roll-boosting items. A lot of possibilities, I am of the current mindset of creating an actual loot-table for certain "mobs" and rolling on the search of their corpse for what you might find, and outright having more rewards during our events, ones that tie directly into it.

In terms of difficulty, I've been of the mindset of not scaling enemies as much as requested in most cases. I'm probably going to be changing that going forward--not in every event because some should be more lethal than others. Just more spread apart. Now, I'm not going to sit here and promise I'm easing up on traps -- you can easily scout ahead and see most of them. They're inherently designed to be very noticeable, and if you miss them, sometimes you miss them. Name of the game. What I will, however, do is look into minimalizing the injuries sustained from them in most cases. I will also lessen the amount I'm adding in events - though, they will still be present and utilized often in regards to certain Miller events, and even some other faction related ones going forward. There is another thing I wanted to suggest, and get player feedback on in regards to traps.

How do rolls against them sound? So, depending on your distance--we might ask you to roll a negative. Nature of your roll determines if you were hit, and if you were hit, you roll again to determine the severity of it with another advantage, or disadvantage. It might lessen the damage done to these, and also give you cool moments where you can come up with something on the fly in a successful roll to avoid long-lasting, permanent damage! I'd have to think of a few more things on that addition to our system, but I'd love some feedback on that in specific.


That's it.
I don't have a lot more to add to this already severely long post. I hope you all have a read through it, and I look forward to some feedback. I may not immediately respond to anything - as I am technically taking a bit of a break today - but I will get to it when I can. I'm confident all of us can have some really positive discussions here, and I can look into making some changes where and how I can in the department of lore. I hope y'all take some time, too, we've all had a stressful past few days with all of this and I think we can all do with a little break. If you don't want to discuss your stuff here, you can hit me up on Discord. I have the same name there, or you can throw it here! I'll do what I can.

Also. If I haven't addressed something that someone posted, I apologize. If I haven't answered -- tag me in the post, or copy and paste me with a tag and I'll do my best to answer it. Word of warning, I might not be able to if it doesn't fall within my actual department. I'll see what I can do, though.

Thanks for readin'.
 

Venom

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I'd like to assure you all that I shared this information after receiving it exclusively in-character, toward the beginning of this lore, Don briefly stepped way from Monroe and ended up encountering another player character--Darner Foxglove--and becoming employed to him as a mercenary. During my work with him, I was brought on several events where I legitimately obtained information in regards to events - which, as was in character for Don, he decided to share with Monroe given his knowledge of their on-going conflicts with both The Miller Family and The C-P-F.
Darner ran into Don slaying a hoard down the street near his home. Upon seeing the feat he offered the job to the man because clearly Don displayed a level of skill that he was looking for. Of which he was sent on 3 contracts, all to places with moderate significance. Of which all the locations I had either applied a ticket or had found solid yet hard to find information to each of the locations. There was a lot of work on my end to, not only get enough money to pay for the jobs but also maintain secrecy of the locations. I for one do NOT enjoy events with more than 4-6 people. It's tedious. So the job was invite only, hence a somewhat private event. I did what I could to find others who displayed useful and trustworthy attributes however it's hard to feel out. So I only found around 3 or so others excluding myself. Probably my favorite genaric RP I've had that needed little OOC guidance. (Just scheduling a time all members would be available to run it.)

But, I'll bring this up - I interfered with the production of this event for direct reasons. The method you and your faction came across said information was through a character--Ryker--directly story-crossing (an act where you have two of your own characters interact to exchange information, or offer opportunities you shouldn't have. It's against the rules, and deeply frowned on.) with his other character to get the aforementioned information.
Now in regards to this, I'm fairly certain I'm the reason this rule was made. It was a bad situation that devolved into something worse. Not something I plan to do again ever. This was done mostly to give an opportunity to a group that otherwise would have never found out anything. As well as play in an event that I would otherwise not be able to attend. I've been talked to about it and it won't happen again.
 

Roflmaozors

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In my opinion, we presented these issues only as a list of concerns. It is easy to say that we should just give more trust here but it's become difficult to gauge what should or shouldn't be trusted when there have been breaches of trust before. I do agree that Pika was simply trying to learn how to gamemaster, although the takeaway from it was that she gave leniency towards the end and it looked like she was hooking Don up since it was not only more lenient but the combat was being sped up at the same time the moment he joined. I will move on from this though since there is reasonable doubt that this is just up for interpretation with different perspectives and I can actually see it through the perspective of the admins.

However, one issue that I did mention with you that wasn’t mentioned here was when exactly did the player base start noticing something was wrong? I went over this in detail before. It was very late and I was likely even less eloquent than I already am. It all began right after the CPF politician was killed. Shortly after, there was a massive bounty placed on two admins characters’ collections after they had fled. Right after the bounty was posted, another admin character immediately swipes up these bounties which benefited all the admin characters involved. It not only looks bad but isn’t justifiable. I understand that admins aren’t perfect and I’m certainly not either, but you have to understand why there is suspicion around admins giving each other leniency.

It’s very easy to say that we should have approached this differently and reached out separately before it built to this, but I want to remind everyone that people expected to be treated exactly like how the initial response to this thread was with the dismissal and blame being shifted solely to the player. It’s not a matter of mind-reading but ignoring what feedback was given at the time. There’s a reason why this had to be a combined effort because singling players out and dismissing their issues is a common problem but I’m glad that the general message is getting out there after some obstacles and derailment. I think everyone understands each other’s perspective a whole lot more at this point and it’s good.

I’ve also said it before, and I will say it again: this is not a smear campaign against admins. We appreciate the extra work you put into the server but our concerns are simple. We’re not asking you to bend to our every demand or put admin characters into a lower category than player characters. This thread was a straightforward request to treat everyone fairly and not to misuse the position. We want you to have fun and we want everyone else to have fun – that’s a common goal. There are no admins vs. players mentality coming from me and I will again reiterate that these are not personal attacks but a statement of concerns. The issues that are listed out are easily fixed and valid.
 
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EnvyDemon

All Along the Death_Tower
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Shortly after, there was a massive bounty placed on two admins characters’ collections after they had fled. Right after the bounty was posted, another admin character immediately swipes up these bounties which benefited all the admin characters involved.
If I recall correctly, Avery is still on the run, but Marian turned herself in, meaning that Marian's bounty was not corrected, and Avery's bounty is still out there, and she is still at large.
 

MindGate

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If I recall correctly, Avery is still on the run, but Marian turned herself in, meaning that Marian's bounty was not corrected, and Avery's bounty is still out there, and she is still at large.
Yep! Marian did turn herself in - to an admin character. I can confirm that, but Avery is indeed still on the run. I kind of forgot about that bit of it.
 
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